EngineerScholar wrote:Regarding your other comments, I'll agree to disagree with you on some of them. It is possible to say the priest was 'superstitious', but he did nevertheless believe that there was more to Iorek's armor that metal. And although Mary said that their scientific team noted that Dust was attracted to objects of 'human' workmanship, I think she would agree that Dust is probably attracted to all works developed by conscious minds, humans or otherwise. (Remember the muleefa, who are certainly 'people', but not of our 'human' species.)
Yes, there is a distinction between people and animals in the books. But where would you place the bears? It's a tough one, they seem kind of in between, hence all the evolution theories, but I still don't think they're people yet. The bears are much more animal, for lack of a better word, than the mulefa.
I believe that the bear's armor is the product of conscious thought, although I can see how others may not think so. And as far as the armor being a bear's 'soul', well, that is a direct quote from Iorek. I don't think any other bears in the books say it. On the other hand, IIRC, the only bears that said anything in the books were Iorek and Iofur! When Iorek says 'a bear's armor is his soul', he is saying that he thinks this his how all bears feel about their armor. Otherwise, he would have said something like 'My armor is my soul.'
Still, when Iorek said that, he compared his armour to Pantalaimon. He might not have meant it literally. It's open to interpretation. I would take the view that armour is more of a soul substitute than an actual soul, because as the book states, bears have no daemons.
And I think he was definitely weak in spirit when his armor was stolen from him; I mean, look at how he was living! He lived behind a bar, was drinking, and basically seemed to make himself a prisoner of what looked to me like a depressing life. If that isn't 'weak in spirit', I don't know what is.
Well, I guess he was depressed after being banished from Svalbard, losing the kingship and then having his armour taken away... No wonder he turned to drink.
But he wasn't like any characters whose daemons have been cut away/eaten by Spectres. I don't think his depression was some kind of diluted reaction to losing his soul...
I think what Iorek felt when the armor was missing was more than just a lack of physical protection. He felt like a part of himself was missing. Note how he describes to Lyra about when he made his armor out of 'sky metal', and says that until he made the armor, he felt 'incomplete'. I'm sure he didn't feel nearly as 'incomplete' as someone from Lyra's world that has undergone the horror of having their daemon severed. I do believe that what Iorek felt was a much lesser degree of the same thing. I do agree that when Iorek says 'a bear's armor is his soul', that the armor is not a soul like ours. I think Iorek is saying that an armored bear's soul is distinctly different from a human's, but as far as the bears are concerned, it is a soul nevertheless.
Good point. But I don't think it was a lesser degree of the same thing... As I understand it, you either have a daemon or you don't. Either you attract Dust or you don't. Remember, Mary Malone mentioned a sudden change in human history, when humans suddenly became conscious. The way it was written made it seem almost like an instant thing, not a gradual process. Perhaps bears could evolve to the point where they had a soul, but they wouldn't have some kind of semi-soul... Their armour is a poor replacement, not an actual soul.
I do believe that the bears will continue to evolve consciousness, and keep attacting more and more Dust. And someday, some bear will be doing something like help his son make his first set of armor, and some sort of creature will materialize out of the bear's Dust, and be the first bear daemon! That would be an amazing thing to see!
It's possible but I don't think they're going there any time soon. Iorek wanted to return to traditional bear ways. I think he prefers being an animal!
He was troubled when he thought he was doubting like a human, after all.
