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Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:23 pm
by shady
Is there any way?I mean,it is known that some people could become angels,and if they would pick one,it certainly would be two of them,they saved Dust and whole World.Angels are made of Dust,so if Will and Lyra saved it,probably they could...
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:14 pm
by Philharmonic
Balthamos said it was very rare for a human to become an angel. i doubt they would because of their agreement to wait at the world of the dead to go through the window together, and then also things wouldnt work out because as angels they can't do as much as they could have as humans
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:46 pm
by shady
I thought of that too,but Baltamos also said that Baruh made him(or helped him)to become and angel,maybe some of the angels would do that to them,maybe Xaphania..
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:57 pm
by Philharmonic
well really it would disturb the natural order of things if they became angels rather than moved on to the world of the dead - i think that balthamos made a massive mistake in making baruch an angel, so...i'd prefer the idea of leaving the world of the dead together rather than living on as angels.
a friend of mine actually said the one time 'if you could live forever what would you live for?'. it had me stumped.
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:28 pm
by shady
i think that balthamos made a massive mistake in making baruch an angel
Why would you think that?I think that he said he saved him,or helped him`coz he loved him so much.
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:57 am
by Philharmonic
i think it is wrong to let someone live on after death - the world of the dead was wrong, metatron shouldnt exist - he should have died as enoch - and baruch should have died, not been reincarnated. its just easier to die, go 6 foot under, the end.
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:53 pm
by Soapy
i think that balthamos made a massive mistake in making baruch an angel,
I completely disagree. Baruch and Balthamos loved every minute they had together, and Baruch made Balthamos a better angel, because he was kind and good. They both suited being angels and in the end it worked out well.
Lyra and Will on the other hand.. I don't think they'd want to. I think they'd get to the end of their lives, wait for each other, and then want the release that leaving the world of the dead gives you. It would not be right for them to live together forever, as you need to live your life NOW in your own world, because it is the only place. There would be no point of them splitting up if they were going to spend their entire lives waiting for the rest of eternity.
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:35 pm
by shady
i think that balthamos made a massive mistake in making baruch an angel,
I completely disagree. Baruch and Balthamos loved every minute they had together, and Baruch made Balthamos a better angel, because he was kind and good. They both suited being angels and in the end it worked out well.
Lyra and Will on the other hand.. I don't think they'd want to. I think they'd get to the end of their lives, wait for each other, and then want the release that leaving the world of the dead gives you. It would not be right for them to live together forever, as you need to live your life NOW in your own world, because it is the only place. There would be no point of them splitting up if they were going to spend their entire lives waiting for the rest of eternity.
You`re right,but that would be the only way of them meeting again.
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:20 pm
by Soapy
i think that balthamos made a massive mistake in making baruch an angel,
I completely disagree. Baruch and Balthamos loved every minute they had together, and Baruch made Balthamos a better angel, because he was kind and good. They both suited being angels and in the end it worked out well.
Lyra and Will on the other hand.. I don't think they'd want to. I think they'd get to the end of their lives, wait for each other, and then want the release that leaving the world of the dead gives you. It would not be right for them to live together forever, as you need to live your life NOW in your own world, because it is the only place. There would be no point of them splitting up if they were going to spend their entire lives waiting for the rest of eternity.
You`re right,but that would be the only way of them meeting again.
What? No, it's not. They meet again in the world of the dead, and then disperse into the air, the stars and the night sky and cease to exist as whole beings.
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:26 pm
by shady
What? No, it's not. They meet again in the world of the dead, and then disperse into the air, the stars and the night sky and cease to exist as whole beings.
Um,they cant die in the same moment,and they wouldnt wait for each other,maybe not even recognize..
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:50 pm
by Soapy
What? No, it's not. They meet again in the world of the dead, and then disperse into the air, the stars and the night sky and cease to exist as whole beings.
Um,they cant die in the same moment,and they wouldnt wait for each other,maybe not even recognize..
Don't they agree to wait for each other there?
Or is that in my head? My copy of TAS is at home.
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:11 pm
by Serenula
Well, I just finished re-reading TAS and I remember that they made a promise. It wasn't to wait for each other in the LotD but that they would search for each other and each atom would join together and they would be together forever. Here's the quote:
"I will love you forever, whatever happens. Till I die and after I die, and when I find my way out of the land of the dead, I'll drift about forever, all my atoms, till I find you again . . ."
"I'll be looking for you, Will, every moment, every single moment. And when we do find each other again, we'll cling together so tight that nothing and no one'll ever tear us apart. Every atom of me and every atom of you . . . We'll live in the birds and the flowers and dragonflies and pine trees and in clouds and in those little specks of light you see floating in sunbeams . . . And when they use our atoms to make new lives, they won't just be able to take one, they'll have to take two, one of you and one of me, we'll be joined so tight . . ."
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:16 am
by MojaveByrd
I never understood why they didn't make a pledge that when they died they would wait in the LOD for the other one. Would make sense as it would be all they'd have. Then they'd leave the LOD together and join. It's so obvious I don't see how it would be an oversight by PP.
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:47 am
by shady
I think that Will wouldnt wait for Lyra,but for his wife..forgot her name,there is a thread somewhere..
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:49 am
by monster8532
It really doesn't matter in the end, everyone dies alone
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 10:43 am
by AUST
Could they become angels? Possibly, but I don't think they'd want to. Angels are weak; they covet matter and I simply don't think it would suit Will and Lyra who are both very physical characters. Besides, becoming an angel is very rare, and they've already got an agreement to meet up in the land of the dead.
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 3:19 am
by MojaveByrd
When did they make an agreement to meet up in the land of the dead?
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 4:35 pm
by Philharmonic
they didn't. i think the agreement was that when they leave the world of the dead, they would hold themselves together-like Scoresby and John Parry-until the other came out. it's not really likely that there's be someone else waiting.
Re: Could Will and Lyra become angels?
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:43 am
by MojaveByrd
Holding themselves together is too hard to do for who knows how long it would be. They should have made an agreement to meet in the LOD. The Harpy would have obliged them. And OMG did that scene of Scoresby going to join with Hester tear me up.