The Republic of Heaven

In the Lantern Slides for TAS ...

"In Lyra's world dæmons; in the world of the mulefa the oil~bearing wheels---both ways of making dust apparent. In our world, what?

... So what do you think the equivalent of dæmons, and the seedpods are that enable us to see the effects of dust. I personally am at a loss here, I cant think of anything that really and clearly shows a child growing up.

well really any concious thought and free will represents dust. I guess in some worlds, dust doesn't take any form.

Perhaps I worded the title wrong but I couldn't think of the right words. I was asking what shows the effects of dust.
In Lyra's world their dæmons settle when they get older. In world of the mulefa, older mulefa have wheels and more dust while the younger one have no wheels and less dust. In Cittagaze specters are only interested in adults.

So my question is whats the equivalent of dæmons settling, wheels on the mulefa, and the specters attacking people.

well since it's a fantasy novel based on fantastical ideas like "dust", i'd say NOTHING IN OUR WORLD SHOWS IT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST. HELLOOOO REALITY CHECK!

You're totally missing the point of what Pullman meant with that.

Pullman was challenging us, the readers, to think about what elements of our world show evidence of our sentience in the same way daemons in lyra's world and the oil bearing wheels in the mulefa's world do.

I would say our advanced computer technology including the internet is a manifestation of Dust.

Diana Peterfreund wrote a great essay in The World of the Golden Compass: The Other Worldly Ride Continues called Ghost in the Machine, in which she compares her laptop to the daemons of HDM and describes how when she had to put her machine in the shop she felt like someone from the books who had lost their daemon. Before reading HDM, I've said that I've lost my soul during the times I had to put my iBook or MacBook in the Apple Store, so i can relate I guess.

Since the internet is only very recent, I'd broaden that to say that our reliance on machines (no matter how simple) reflects the stuff which in HDM constitutes Dust.

then the answer is obviously meat eating. oh and snailmail letters. telephones and coca cola. television and their remote controls. snoopy and liquorice, money, growing plants, trips on airplanes, high fiving, sports, keys. WOW! WE ARE DANCING, DANCING IN OUR WORLD'S EMBODIMENT OF MR.PULLMAN'S CHALLENGE!

i was thinking maybe it had something to do with ancient Pagen religion, because it was proven by the church as 'Devil Worship' and Dust in PP's Books is like 'original sin' and the G.O.B were trying to get rid of 'original sin' like the Church tries to get rid of 'Hieratic's and devil worship'
just a thought

Okay, this is what I think. (Get ready to be TRAUMATIZED.)

Pullman noted that while we are much like animals, we are different from animals. (Hence that humans had animal daemons and an animal that would WANT a daemon, like Ragnok, would have a human for a daemon, contrarywise.) What makes us different from animals? I personally think it is choice. Animals act on instinct, we act on choice (or should.... ) So I think that dust is that thing the original creator God, the 'Authority' of Pullman's work, didn't want us to have. The knowledge of right and wrong, the knowledge of choice (called 'gnosis' to some.) We have that thanks to a snake..... At least, according to SOME.....

Now, the idea of a daemon is an 'olde' one, and it is known in ancient spiritualities that you carry your totem, or animal spirit, in your green door, or the heart chakra. So, if you are lookin for the 'reality' of your daemon, in our world it is in your heart, your conscience, that quiet little voice inside that is tryin to tell you when you are screwin up. THAT would be the manifestation of 'dust in our world.

HELLOOOO REALITY CHECK!

What exactly IS reality? Is it just chemical signals interpreted by your brain? Or, as Einstien put is, 'an illusion, albeit a persistent one.....' ? Reality is very relative.

Well, if I were to believe that dust was indeed real, I would consider it more of an 'idea' rather than a physical substance. I would say it is something that triggers a mind set and belief. Therefore i could argure that religion is an example of 'dust' because there is such a widespread belief in it, anything that sparks an idea that a large quantity of people beleave in, is indeed the influence of dust.

Silly notion I must say, but its a valid theory

In answer to the first post on this thread, the only thing that will make dust (dark matter) apparent is probably a particle collider such as the LHC at CERN. If we could actually see it I guess it would create such a fog you wouldn't see anything else. The notion of dark matter being concious(ness?) is a clever idea by Pullman, but nonsense all the same. It's a fantasy book after all...

monster8532 wrote:In the Lantern Slides for TAS ...

"In Lyra's world dæmons; in the world of the mulefa the oil~bearing wheels---both ways of making dust apparent. In our world, what?

... So what do you think the equivalent of dæmons, and the seedpods are that enable us to see the effects of dust. I personally am at a loss here, I cant think of anything that really and clearly shows a child growing up.

In an anatomical sense, pubescent organs grow when "dust" settles. However, if the answer is what do we have that comes in the years before sexual maturity, I'm as much at a loss of labelling as PP is.