M: Northern Lights - TGC (Fan Edit, video inside!)

[Energy]

*you walk into the retiring room*
Ahh Ladies... gentleman... I'll get straight to the point. I created this video viewtopic.php?f=7&t=206463 a couple of months ago. The idea behind the video was to envision how TGC would have felt without its ending cut off. Possibly fewer copies would now be collecting Dust.
*murmers*
I set off on an adveture to start re-editing a film to try and get it to resemble something close to my favourite story. Unfortunatly perils got in the way (I got a new job), but I've still been planning out how this would work. I've decided to show you an example of how it is currently going. Hopefully people will be able to help me move along in this personal adventure.

View a sample here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCWGs22ym_o

(Ok i'm giving up on the whole retiring room thing!)
Basically yes, I've had a go at recreating the scenes that would lead the rescue of the children to the capture of the bears. There is not really enough footage to do this seamlessly publicly availble. The audio is rough and a few errors have crept up in the rendering process, but generally it gives another idea of what the film may of looked like before the *cut*

I'd love your advice and support.
* Yes I am planning to reedit the whole film. I've got a new dedicated harddrive to hold all the video footage.
* No the re-edit will not be made public, I just can't for legal reasons. If I could I'd have many of you involved and helping. I think new line / WB whoever would not be impressed.
* Video in this scene has been colourised, edited, new clips put in, sound effects added. It's not finished so please don't judge too harsh.
* Yes I'm renaming my personal version of the film Northern Lights: the fan cut, do you like the logo at the beginning?
* Yes I will be sticking my ending scene on the end, even in its incomplete form.

I need sleep.

Let me hear what you think, I really want to know!

BTW don't drink the tokay it's corked
(SP? damn dyslexia!)

UPDATE------------

VIEW THE RECONSTRUCTED ENDING SCENE HERE:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qi6javLIDqg

VIEW THE RECONSTRUCTED LYRA TAKEN TO BOLVANGAR SCENE HERE:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=62zASfUS_wU

[Nora]

You're doing good work, I do have two suggestions for you in this portion of your work. First, it's not likely you're going to get a scene to fill that black space, instead I would recommend then when Lyra falls out have it fade black very briefly, then slowly fade in like she was coming to consciousness and seeing the bears around her. Also, at the same scene I would recommend having the audio fade out slightly before the transition as leaving mid bear roar is a tad jarring.

Also, I do believe the general rule on fan edits is: If you own the DVD, you're free to mess around as you please or have it distributed to you. I assume in this case, since you're using footage from the game as well, you will need to own a copy of the game also. Those are the legal regulations, anyhow.

[Energy]

Hey thanks for the feedback,

Your doing good work, I do have two suggestions for you in this portion of your work. First, it's not likely you're going to get a scene to fill that black space, instead I would recommend then when Lyra falls out have it fade black very briefly, then slowly fade in like she was coming to consciousness and seeing the bears around her. Also, at the same scene I would recommend having the audio fade out slightly before the transition as leaving mid bear roar is a tad jarring.

The fade to black that you talk about kind of already happens. For some unknown reason the blackness on the compiled version is longer than the one on the actual edit I've made. It also already does the fades that you mention (at least it does in my version, can't check the compiled version on youtube because I'm at work). That part is still very rough tho... I'm currently working on some audio for it, basically a muffled echo-y 'lyra!!!' from lee scrosby plus some tundra noise. That will add to the unconscious 'effect'.

As for the bear roar. Not sure which bit you mean. I'll rewatch at lunch time and see if I can understand more. I have an idea, and if I'm correct then I'll jsut say that I'm trying to preserve as much of the original as possible. Only cutting out eva green's naration over the scene.

Also, I do believe the general rule on fan edits is: If you own the DVD, you're free to mess around as you please or have it distributed to you. I assume in this case, since you're using footage from the game as well, you will need to own a copy of the game also. Those are the legal regulations, anyhow.

Unfortunatly what you say are the legal regulations are wrong. I won't go into full detail, but basically even editing the film is technically breaking rules, even having it on my computer isn't great. There is no way to distribute it legally, even if I was some how able to gurantee that every person who had the edit also had the commercial dvd. In the end New Line will protect their money and having an alternate cut online which people would be able to get for free could upset them greatly. Even if they are impressed with the ingenuity of what we're trying. That's why I'm sticking to showing the big scenes i'm editing.

On a side note, if anyone wants to help me greatly, anyone got or want to create a catalogue of all the scenes in the trailers, and whether they're a new scene, incomplete scene (effects not finished / done), finished, or alternate take.

Also if people have found any green scene footage or other rare scenes let me know. The more footage the better I can do. And for people who help I'll be able to help them if they want to do similar

[Nora]

I am fairly sure I am correct about the regulations regarding fan edits, you should check out http://www.fanedit.org for more information (it's where a lot of fan edits are shared, legally, including lots of big name films, such a Star Wars). Anyhow, thanks for hearing my feedback, glad some of it is already there. Personally, I would rather see a nice, seem-less movie that incorporates as much as we can, rather than a jagged piecing together. It's most certainly do-able, you just have to be willing to sacrifice bits here and there. Anyhow, it's you production, so you can produce it how you like, just giving you a little advice as requested

[Energy]

I am fairly sure I am correct about the regulations regarding fan edits, you should check out http://www.fanedit.org for more information (it's where a lot of fan edits are shared, legally, including lots of big name films, such a Star Wars). Anyhow, thanks for hearing my feedback, glad some of it is already there. Personally, I would rather see a nice, seem-less movie that incorporates as much as we can, rather than a jagged piecing together. It's most certainly do-able, you just have to be willing to sacrifice bits here and there. Anyhow, it's you production, so you can produce it how you like, just giving you a little advice as requested

Unfortunatly all that information about fanedits is wrong. It's like the rom and emulator sites that state that you can keep a rom for 24 hours if you don't have the original and stuff like that. Unfortunatly pure myth.

Even though I'm a uk'er, I understand american copyright law better. To my understanding you're allowed to make one backup- however you're not allowed to change the format or modify the contents in any way. So you'd have to copy to a dual layer DVD, copy protection and everything. Unfortunatly the copyprotection prevents this. If you disable the copyprotection you are then breaking the DCMA meaning that you can't duplicate it. As much as I like fan edits, they are not legal no matter how many copies of the dvd you own :/

As for a seamless copy of the golden compass, that's my goal. As I've stressed a lot this is a rough version. When I've got the new harddrive up everythign I've done so far will be redone. This is mainly a test piece. I'm not sure where you're seeing all these jagged cuts Only bit I can see is the black out, but as I mentioned I'm still working on it and the rendered version has some bugs in it which aren't in the home version. Thanks for the continued feedback though

[Roll_with_it]

Rough, yes, but well done. That's the best anyone is going to get with the available footage.


The clip just reminded me of how much I hate Highmore as Pan. And Roger falling asleep is terrible. How did that make it in to the theatrical cut?

[daemon_light]

Great job, Energy! Few comments however...

1) Nathan's comments about the film are spot on about the black-out and the bear roar. Her fall is a little anti-climatic... which I know you can't fully help with what you have. But maybe a sound effect to give the effect of falling into snow from quite a ways up... I don't know if you can do this.

2) I know this is a rough edit (and a very good one at that, I must say) but I thought the switch from Lyra to Scoresby and Iorek's conversation was a bit rough. The transition might be better after the bear roars... so then after Iorek and Lee's scene, it can be a pan of the whole valley with Lyra next to the two bears. That way, the environment will be established a little more and suit as a better transitions.

Extremely well done! Thanks for sharing this... this is really good. You reallly have no idea.

[Energy]

Great job, Energy! Few comments however...

1) Nathan's comments about the film are spot on about the black-out and the bear roar. Her fall is a little anti-climatic... which I know you can't fully help with what you have. But maybe a sound effect to give the effect of falling into snow from quite a ways up... I don't know if you can do this.

2) I know this is a rough edit (and a very good one at that, I must say) but I thought the switch from Lyra to Scoresby and Iorek's conversation was a bit rough. The transition might be better after the bear roars... so then after Iorek and Lee's scene, it can be a pan of the whole valley with Lyra next to the two bears. That way, the environment will be established a little more and suit as a better transitions.

Extremely well done! Thanks for sharing this... this is really good. You reallly have no idea.

Hey daemon_light,
Yeah I've done some work on the black out, may upload a new version soon. Something that is not in the uploaded version, but is in the production version is a *thud* kinda noise from an orchestra. It's not quite perfect yet, but it adds a more definitive- what just happened. But it won't be this weekend as I'm away from my computer So expect next weekend

As for the swap about with the lee scrosby scene and the bear roaring scene. I like that idea. There is one huge problem though... The nighttime-daytime shift. I could put it so that all the scenes are colorised to night. This may actually help in the context of the film, so I may try it as an experiment and upload it exclusivly here for you guys to comment on.

did you guys like the scene I spliced in of Serafina flying away from the ballon? I colourised it to fit in with the rest, as it was a blue tint in the source I had. Also the sound you hear of her rushing past is actually the sound clip from when she lands on the boat.

Also am I retarded... maybe because I always get wound up after the bear fight. But I never realised that lyra exclaims while riding on iroek 'the alethiomiter says they're going to hurt roger!' obviously talking about stelmaria and asriel >_<
How did I never notice that!
grrr!

[daemon_light]

I never realised that lyra exclaims while riding on iroek 'the alethiomiter says they're going to hurt roger!' obviously talking about stelmaria and asriel >_<
How did I never notice that!
grrr!

Wow! I actually have noticed that line and always thought it was terrible... but now it makes way more sense now that I know what it was meant for. They really should have cut that out of the theatrical version. It's really bad where it is now.

As for the swap about with the lee scrosby scene and the bear roaring scene. I like that idea. There is one huge problem though... The nighttime-daytime shift. I could put it so that all the scenes are colorised to night. This may actually help in the context of the film, so I may try it as an experiment and upload it exclusivly here for you guys to comment on.

That's really unfortunate about the lighting... I'm gonna go look at that pan of the field again to see if it would look good at night. Another thing you could do to avoid that problem is to cut from Lyra blacking out to Lee and Iorek's conversation. Only problem with that is what they're talking about might be slightly out of place and confusing...

did you guys like the scene I spliced in of Serafina flying away from the ballon? I colourised it to fit in with the rest, as it was a blue tint in the source I had. Also the sound you hear of her rushing past is actually the sound clip from when she lands on the boat.

Yes! I really loved that. You did it so seamlessly I thought it was part of the original footage. bravo! It makes me wonder though... I always thought it was a huge expectation to hope that the audience would buy Lyra falling from the balloon and not die, especially considering how far up they were. I don't remember how she fell and didn't die in the books, but I'm wondering if that shot of Serafina is supposed to be her saving Lyra. I mean, like, grabbing her ankles, but loosing her closer to the ground eventually. It could easily be in one of the deleted scenes we never saw on screen or in the promotional material. Who knows... but it's interesting.

[sfsraffie]

Nice editing! If I had your skills and know-how, I'd make me a decent cut of The Mummy Returns... but that's another story.

Perhaps you could give us a YouTube sampling of your version of Asriel's lecture scene, presumably with the unnecessary remarks "Svalbard... kingdom of the ice-bears" excised?

[daemon_light]

Perhaps you could give us a YouTube sampling of your version of Asriel's lecture scene, presumably with the unnecessary remarks "Svalbard... kingdom of the ice-bears" excised?

That wasn't exactly unnecessary...

[Energy]

Sorry I've not replied sooner... I was away for the weekend. Has been a great weekend, but now back here and thinking of what to do to progress.

sfsraffie - I've never been taught any video editing, I've picked it all up myself. That's why my stuff isn't always perfect, but most the tools you use are pretty easy to pick up. Heck I started creating videos using Windows Movie Maker: it's a useless piece of software, but it gives you the basics and if you're clever it can have some great results (believe it or not, the rough cut of my ending was done in movie maker).

Making a cut of the mummy returns might be easier than you think. I can offer advice, but obviously have my hands full with this.

When I've got a more respectable cut of my asriel scene I'll put it up. I've started working on redoing the first 15 minutes, but it's currently early storyboard ideas of how i can fit scenes in... and whether I can change the title to northern lights. The problem is, what you may dislike, others may like, or it may be required for the integrity of the story... I'm being very careful with anything I cut.

daemon_light - Yes I had considered that too. It's a tough one, because there is a lack of shots... even her falling out, in itself, is incomplete. There's not enough real explination as to how it happens. It is possible that there are cliff ghasts... we just don't know. To me I saw serfina flying away as a reason as to why lyra wasn't catched. It's not hard to fly straight down... But yes it does leave it to the audience to believe that you can fall that far and land on snow and it not hurt.

I'm currently working on three sequences...
* Semi - Finalised version of the ending sequence. Clips from the final film now inserted into the right points. I believe this will push my ending sequence to over 10 minutes! Still need to find that green screen sequence that was mentioned that appears on the DVD. Please help!

* Semi - Finalised version of the ballon fall / bear sequence... can I make a version where lee scrosby doesn't lose his hat? Only time can tell.

* Rough sequence of lyra being captured and delieverd to bolvangar. (I expect this to be pretty easy though! Simple cuts, new music, a few extra sound effects here and there)

When these three sequences are finished I'm going to join them all together (with the rest of the film) and sit back and watch it as one, then start working on the more niggling cuts. The extended intro could be the next concentration point.

[Nora]

Good to see you're still making progress on this. I did some research about the legality of fan edits lately. You are correct, they are illegal, but they are not illegal everywhere. If you live in a country that allows you to make legal backups of your DVDs, fan edits are legal. Most countries, however, do not permit this or are very shady in the area (the US does not allow it and the UK frowns upon it). You also cannot, obviously, gain any profit from said edit. If you wish to download one of these edits, you must live in a country that allows DVD backups and own a copy of all materials used within the edit. All credits must remain 100% intact as in the original release.

Just thought I'd share that info, as it was quite interesting to dig up.

[Energy]

Good to see you're still making progress on this. I did some research about the legality of fan edits lately. You are correct, they are illegal, but they are not illegal everywhere. If you live in a country that allows you to make legal backups of your DVDs, fan edits are legal. Most countries, however, do not permit this or are very shady in the area (the US does not allow it and the UK frowns upon it). You also cannot, obviously, gain any profit from said edit. If you wish to download one of these edits, you must live in a country that allows DVD backups and own a copy of all materials used within the edit. All credits must remain 100% intact as in the original release.

Just thought I'd share that info, as it was quite interesting to dig up.

yeah copyright law can be quite interesting. In the uk it's actually illegal to rip a CD and put it on your ipod. However the BMI have said that they'd never charge anyone for doing it... still quite weird!
I've done a little more tonight, but not much... too tired after my long weekend! lol

[Gabe]

Hey, good to see you're still working on this! If you ever run into any video editing issues, or feel like something could be edited (as in image processing) but you're not sure how to do it, give me a shout...I might be able to help.

[Nora]

Over the past week or so I've been viewing a lot of fan edits for various films and I realized you're correct, it's not that difficult if you've done any sort of editing in the past. The one thing that seems to mess things up though is the audio. Most of the files I have are encoded for 5.1 Surround sound, so I should be able to separate them in the mix and adjust the different tracks accordingly. Unfortunately, for some reason I can't seem to find any reliable programs for this. Would you have any recommendations on how to pull apart these audio channels? They're mostly in AC3 format.

Edit: Well, I seem to have solved my own question. Sony Sound Forge allows for very precise editing of the different tracks in the 5.1 mix, exactly what I was looking for. What's great about this is that the majority of dialog (about 98%) is on the center channel, with the music playing through the Left and Right Surround tracks. This gives the ability to, if one so desired, remix the musical score into the film with a little bit of skillful editing. I think the score that was recorded for the film is truly superb, akin to the level of John Williams pieces for the original Star Wars film. Unfortunately, the manner in which it was implemented into the film in many instances does not let it truly shine. Just thought I'd share that little tidbit of information I dug up and hope you can use it wisely in your edit

[Energy]

Gabrobot - big thanks, if I need any help I'll give you a shout.

Nathan - glad you sorted it nathan. Ac3 can be a pain in the arse to use.

As you've noticed that 5.1 mix is very useful when you can seperate things out. Unfortunatly the video game deleted scenes I have are in stereo (I think they're like that in the game, I've not looked at weather the videos can be directly extracted from an iso of the game. If anyone has knowledge of how to do this, or if it's possible, please PM me, as it's not really something we should discuss in public.)

Cause those scenes are in stereo I've been mixing down the videos to stereo once they've been edited. Might have to look and see what the 7.1 mix included in the bluray can provide

-- oh and as a lil exclusive for you guys I'll be hopefully uploading the ending scene, in all its finalised glory, on sunday or monday evening. It will be only in this thread, on this forum, for around a week or so.

[Nora]

I just took a look at the video game footage and the best I seem to be able to get is stereo as well. I tried pulling it straight from the ISO, but it doesn't seem to be stored anywhere on the disc in a usable format (perhaps this would be a different case on a non-PC version of the game?). Also, the reason it may be in stereo could be due to a mixdown in the conversion from SFD to MPG. I don't know what the converter I've got is doing, but if perhaps there is a way to view the video in its original SFD format there may be more to the audio track.

[Gabe]

The SFD format is just a file that the video and audio streams have been multiplexed into (as opposed to an AVI, MOV or MPG for example)...the "converters" are just extracting the original Mpeg streams from the SFD, so the resulting files you're getting contain the exact same data that was put into them.

Energy, if you have the videos we, uh, talked about then you already have exactly what the game plays in-game, just multiplexed to a format that you can use.

[Nora]

The SFD format is just a file that the video and audio streams have been multiplexed into (as opposed to an AVI, MOV or MPG for example)...the "converters" are just extracting the original Mpeg streams from the SFD, so the resulting files you're getting contain the exact same data that was put into them.

Not necessarily, the majority of file type converters limit you to one audio channel. For example, if you convert from VOB to MPEG you will lose your secondary audio channels and be left with only stereo audio. That's the same simple form of conversion from basically just a container file type, so it's possible if you can access an alternate audio channel upon conversion that a non-stereo mix may be available.