Will and Lyra... meet again?

[dhstriker]

if it is so hard to meet in the underworld how are there atoms going to find each other in the whole of the worlds with every one else whos died

[MojaveByrd]

Good point. Certainly the universe is larger than the Underworld. Besides, would their particles recognize each other - the universal consciousness of the particles probably wouldn't since everything is supposed to mix together. I didn't take it literally that the consciousness of Hester was actually waiting to join up with Scoresby (although my heart wanted it to be that way). IMO

But it wouldn't have been that hard to meet in the Underworld. Wait right inside the entrance. And the Harpy would let whoever got there first know that the other one had arrived.

[dhstriker]

thats a good thought who do you think will die first Will or Lyra

[Philharmonic]

I don't know...I think Lyra will die first because a) she's made an godawful lot of enemies in her world and b) she doesn't seem as strong as Will.

I don't know...

[MojaveByrd]

There's really no way to even consider who will die first. Life is full of many obstacles and luck or chance does play a big role. They could both have very healthy genes and still get hit by a bus crossing the street tomorrow.

[Ayanna]

I don't think they will meet again, face to face that is. Would be kind of a cheap way out if they did. If the ending had been a happy one, I wouldn't have been as effected as I was. The ending was beautiful and tragic, so if I heard they were going to meet again, even though I never wanted them to be separated, I'd still kinda feel, well what was the point of that. Kind of takes away the effect of the ending of The Amber Spyglass.

[reeka]

Whats to say that Oliver Payne( I think that was his name) isnt going to take up the research that Mary was doing. He could have recreated the data and got all the information he needed, and somehow got into another world and started something all over again? Maybe he got help from one of the Angels that was supposed to be closing the windows, but decided with the Authority gone, he could rule all being of all the worlds but needed some help? And Will would be told by Xaphania about what was going on?

[Acchon]

If he is related to Max Payne, he cannot fail.

[ramparts]

Sorry if this has been mentioned already but I couldn't find it on the first few/last couple of pages.......

While it's very nice to imagine/hope that they meet up again before the world of the dead (I'm certainly tempted to, because that's an emotionally brutal ending), it can't happen! One of the brilliant (terrible, but brilliant) things Pullman does in that first scene where they realize they might have to part, right before Lyra reaches for the alethiometer and discovers she can't read it, is throw in a little mention of how Will remembers her in his "later years", with the rucksack she was always carrying. Just as the characters begin to realize there's no hope, and they must resign themselves to fate, Pullman forces the reader (who, otherwise, would probably be waiting until the very last page for a miracle) to realize the same. It put an important finality on that revelation, for the reader. So, nice as it is to think they find a way to be together, from the very beginning we know it can't happen, and it gives the reader time to deal with the consequences of it, instead of wasting their time waiting and hoping for a way out.

[MojaveByrd]

...right before Lyra reaches for the alethiometer and discovers she can't read it...a little mention of how Will remembers her in his "later years", with the rucksack she was always carrying...

...it gives the reader time to deal with the consequences of it, instead of wasting their time waiting and hoping for a way out.

Thanks for pointing that out. I remember the part you are referring to but never realized before that it tells the reader that the situation is final. And, like the angels closing EVERY window so that Will and Lyra won't spend their lives searching and waiting and hoping that one still exists instead of living their lives, the reader can begin to deal with the horrible consequences (as you said).

I did find, however, that, for me (and I know for others, too), dealing with the consequences extended far beyond the last page of the book.

[Philharmonic]

yeah...but if they did somehow find some loophole, they would probably use it even if it did turn out ad in the long run. like i saw someplace else that one could have left their dæmon in their world, seeing as it's that that causes the illness. three problems-what happens when the window closes up-does it break the connection? Lyra would NEVER leave pan again, and Will would stick out in Lyra's world without kirjava.

There's a few others, but i won't go into that.

It was good how it was a sad ending, but if the film gets made, after what happened with TGC, Chris Weitz will probably screw it all up.

I think they should see each other again-like what happened to john parry-one of them walks through a window, doesn't realise and then only figures it out later and when they go back the window's gone.

But just so long as they don't know, it could be crafted well.

[reeka]

Something else I have been thinking about. What if John Parry was coming down with the sickness from being away from his world for so long, was caused by being away from his family, the people he loved? They could have been the only connection he had to his world, and not being near them for 10 years was making him ill(home sick in a way). So, whats to say if Will's mom died, he wouldnt be able to live in Lyra's world and not worry about that happening to him, since he was in love with Lyra and that would tie him to her world?

[ramparts]

Something else I have been thinking about. What if John Parry was coming down with the sickness from being away from his world for so long, was caused by being away from his family, the people he loved? They could have been the only connection he had to his world, and not being near them for 10 years was making him ill(home sick in a way). So, whats to say if Will's mom died, he wouldnt be able to live in Lyra's world and not worry about that happening to him, since he was in love with Lyra and that would tie him to her world?

Again, Pullman's foreshadowing at work - Will lives to an old age, and presumably in his world, since in his older years he's still thinking about Lyra as a 12 year old girl.

[ramparts]

I did find, however, that, for me (and I know for others, too), dealing with the consequences extended far beyond the last page of the book.[/b][/color]

I completely agree! Took me a few days to get over that, it did. Now, I find it strange that so much space has been devoted to a question that Pullman has already more or less rendered moot. Perhaps the far more interesting question (and one that bears asking both in and out of the emotional state from reading the conclusion of The Amber Spyglass) is this:

Pullman has, as far as I know, not mentioned Lyra or Will falling in love again in any of the "extra" material. Should/will they move on with their love lives and date/marry (their love seemed so strong, but then they were both very young and new to love, and long lonely), or will they - knowing what they do about the afterlife - abide, waiting until their lives end to reunite in the world of the mulefa?

[MojaveByrd]

Well, Lyra did discuss with Will about going back to their own worlds and falling in love. I don't remember the direct quote but she said something about: if you fall in love, love that person fully and without regret for what we don't/can't have.

That doesn't mean that they both looked for new relationships immediately. I would think they would be more concerned with other things - Will with his mother; Lyra with relearning the alethiometer, and both of them with building the Republic. I think they both would accept love if it came to them but would not pursue it. And if it happened it could have been when they were much, much older.

I thought it was strange that Lyra would even think about the possibility of having another relationship, being in such distress over the current one. Usually when a relationship ends through no one's fault (such as death, which this is similar to) it takes a little time before the parties involved can think of having close emotional relationships with others. And it seemed to me, again, to be a much more mature reaction than Lyra should have had at 12-13 years old. But then, I thought their altruistic sacrifice was way beyond their years in emotion and wisdom. Children of 13 years old don't make sacrifices like that. They want what they want and don't care about any other consequences. However, I chose not to think about that very closely.

[Silversnake]

I hope they never meet up or talk together again, only because the thing that makes theese books so great is that it has the perfect ending. After I truely thought it would be a happy ending, I was wrong, this made me sad, but makes it a great book at the same time.

I thought it was strange that Lyra would even think about the possibility of having another relationship, being in such distress over the current one.

Ah yes but in that situation she was thinking about Will, she couldnt bare the imagine him being sad and alone for the rest of his life.

[Philharmonic]

Well I thought in TBoD perhaps Will, a bit older-he'd be 16 or 17-than in TSK and TAS, stumbles across Lyra after mindlessly wandering through a window (that Xaphina and co. haven't closed yet) as in the case of John Parry, but he doesn't recognize her cos shes changed a lot, and so has he so she doesn't recognize him, Will assumes a sort of alias so as not to screw the worlds up (like in case there is a Will Parry in that world) and Lyra also assumes one after the events of Lyra's Oxford. So, neither know who the other is, and Lyra's suspicious cos Will aint got a dæmon then at the end of this, Kirjava finally finds him after actually seeing the window before going through, the game is out, Lyra recognizes him, Will still doesn't know what the hell is going on until he takes a proper look at Pan (out of courtesy he hasn't taken one yet), Will realises something is definitely amiss and Kirj takes him back to the window which has now been closed. Meaning now fo the sake of his promise to Xaphina, he has to go to Svalbard for the repairs, Iorek doesn't want to do it again so he (Will) goes through the breach at the Aurora which hasn't closed yet, goes through, and only when he reaches Cittagazze realises he closed that window.

That wouldn't work would it?

[Ayanna]

I thought it was strange that Lyra would even think about the possibility of having another relationship, being in such distress over the current one.

Ah yes but in that situation she was thinking about Will, she couldnt bare the imagine him being sad and alone for the rest of his life.

Indeed, and I think it also shows a level of maturity also in her. Rather than going with the stereotypical, I'll never love anyone else ever and I will live and die alone, which rarely does happen. Of course they will probably meet significant others, but this does not take away what they had. If they were not forced to separate then they would be together, but as it is, they need to move on.

[reflective]

meeting eachother brought out new parts of them they didnt know, it was unfair to seperate them however he did, where would they have lived anyway?
but pp did leave us with one last chance THEY WILL MEET AGAIN....
in the partical they reprisend as dust, or possibly angels....i think that would make a nice little story however it would never be made.

[Zero]

The question posed here is not “should” they meet again but “will” they, our desires in the matter – be it for the sacrifice not to be wasted or for the justice of them being allowed to find each other again – are (luckily) in the hands of the only person who’s opinion on this I trust.

I think it’s interesting that Pullman has (as far as I know) avoids definitive statements about whether this will ever happen: yes the evidence is there in hints that they will never again physicaly meet “face to face” but it’s at least partially ambigious.

Personally, I can live with the terrible deep ache that HDM left in me and the sense of wanting things to be different: but only because I know that even though HDM may be complete the story isn’t over. I’d settle for knowing that they make peace with it. If two fictional characters can accept their fate then who am I to disagree?