Other influences

[Soapy]

We know PP was influenced greatly by Milton, Blake and that essay (forget the name of it but I *have* read it) and of course we know his little digs at Mr Lewis but today I spotted another influence.

DEATH be not proud, though some have called thee
Mighty and dreadfull, for, thou art not so,
For, those, whom thou think'st, thou dost overthrow,
Die not, poore death, nor yet canst thou kill me.
From rest and sleepe, which but thy pictures bee, 5
Much pleasure, then from thee, much more must flow,
And soonest our best men with thee doe goe,
Rest of their bones, and soules deliverie.
Thou art slave to Fate, Chance, kings, and desperate men,
And dost with poyson, warre, and sicknesse dwell, 10
And poppie, or charmes can make us sleepe as well,
And better then thy stroake; why swell'st thou then;
One short sleepe past, wee wake eternally,
And death shall be no more; death, thou shalt die

I think that's very obviously an influence, although of course the message is different and PP has manipulated it a bit. The whole personifying death and then the 'death shall die' bit really stood out to me.

I know Rosie has a tonne of these and I'd like to hear hers but does anyone else?

[Ian]

Not quite as philosophical or theological as Milton and his cronies, but I've always felt that Lyra is very similar to Joan Aiken's Dido Twite. I guess Aiken was one of the first authors to genuinely harness the idea of the gritty young heroine, who from lowly beginnings could do so much. It's something I noticed almost as soon as I started reading Northern Lights.

[Enitharmon]

Donne was a Metaphysical of course, as was George Herbert, and Andrew Marvell. Milton is sometimes counted as a Metaphysical poet though he isn't really, but he was close to the Metaphysicals, especially Marvell.

And PP chooses to quote all of them in his chapter headings to TAS.

[zemarl]

Donne was a Metaphysical of course, as was George Herbert, and Andrew Marvell. Milton is sometimes counted as a Metaphysical poet though he isn't really, but he was close to the Metaphysicals, especially Marvell.

And PP chooses to quote all of them in his chapter headings to TAS.

not in MY copy. *sulks* this is a good excuse to buy a boxed set as any, am i right?

[Alewyn]

hmm...that quote (the first one) is at the beginning of Death Be Not Proud...

PP must've been influenced by thousands of things, think about it. I'm trying to think of something, but they all seem to be the other way around (judging by the copyright dates)

[Kyrillion]

Hmph, where'd my response go to the Joan Aiken comment? Oh well - I just agreed, anyway. Aiken rocks. Rocked.

As for John Donne, call me obsessed but all I kept thinking when we studied him at A-level was how relevant some bits were to HDM.

Song (Sweetest love I do not go...) reminds me so much of Lyra's parting from Pantalaimon. The references to 'feigned deaths' and so on are very relavent for the situation.

http://www.online-literature.com/donne/348/

The most relevant verse has got to be the first:

SWEETEST love, I do not go,
For weariness of thee,
Nor in hope the world can show
A fitter love for me ;
But since that I
At the last must part, 'tis best,
Thus to use myself in jest
By feigned deaths to die.


And also the lines:

When thou sigh'st, thou sigh'st not wind,
But sigh'st my soul away ;
When thou weep'st, unkindly kind,
My life's blood doth decay.
It cannot be
That thou lovest me as thou say'st,
If in thine my life thou waste,
That art the best of me.


I bet PP is a fan of the metaphysical poets. Although not colerisge. I could never forgive him if he liked Christabel.

[Soapy]

As for John Donne, call me obsessed but all I kept thinking when we studied him at A-level was how relevant some bits were to HDM

I know exactly what you mean!