animals with daemons

teebone · Postby **teebone** » Thu May 29, 2003 9:22 pm

in the newspaper there was an article on chimpanzees being included in the human family because their behavor is similar to ours, would this mean that chimps could have daemons?

Pyr · Postby **Pyr** » Thu May 29, 2003 9:27 pm

depends on your point of view. id say no, but some argue that our consciouness is an illusion and animals such as chimps are just as smart as we are..ya. i dunno.

Daniel · Postby **Daniel** » Thu May 29, 2003 10:19 pm

Could you elaborate on what the newspaper said (or give a link to an online version of the article)? I'm aware that chimps were already classified as primates, which is the same group as humans, but they're definitely not the same species. I'd think that there's a huge psychological difference between the two as well. What it really boils down to is whether chimps are conscious or not, to which I don't have an answer. I would guess that they aren't. (I can't define consciousness, so I can't really say.)

AySz88 · Postby **AySz88** » Thu May 29, 2003 10:53 pm

Chimps are of the same genus, but different species, so the differences can be fairly large still.

Postby **jessia** » Fri May 30, 2003 3:37 am

many animals are really smart... but are they concious as humans are?

teebone · Postby **teebone** » Fri May 30, 2003 3:40 am

i cant find the article but why does it only have to be humans with dÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¦mons? chimps: recognize themselves in the mirror, have complex social lives, form their own culture, use tools, can learn the human language(but not speak it vocally of course), have their own way of comunicating, form alliances, have long term memory etc. humans are not the chosen ones who are connected to the gods, we are animals, too, evolved from the same roots but a little more developed

Daniel · Postby **Daniel** » Fri May 30, 2003 4:34 am

One word: art. Creativity for creativity's sake is what sets humans apart from other animals--and from machines.

Pyr · Postby **Pyr** » Fri May 30, 2003 6:42 am

that is a very good point.

Shivy · Postby **Shivy** » Fri May 30, 2003 10:55 am

I saw it, it was something about that their DNA was 99.4% the same as our own, so they should be classed as the same family because they're so genetically similar.

Dr Wildman said: "You could say that humans and chimps are as similar to one another as say horses and donkeys.

hmm..
The article about it is here

Mooon · Postby **Mooon** » Fri May 30, 2003 1:53 pm

teebone wrote:we are animals, too,

If we are animals then can someone have a man for a dÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¦mon, like someone can have a chimp for a dÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¦mon?

eloquent · Postby **eloquent** » Fri May 30, 2003 2:12 pm

I wouldn't think so. The main difference between humans and chimps is that humans have about 8 times more brain than we need for basic functionality and motor neuronal operation, wheras chimps have twice as much, which still makes them among the most intelligent of animals, although they're not in the same league as humans.

Carina · Postby **Carina** » Fri May 30, 2003 4:02 pm

Animals probably just have dÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¦mons on the inside, but the humans in Lyra's world are the only ones who consiously see them. does that make any sense at all???

Pyr · Postby **Pyr** » Fri May 30, 2003 5:26 pm

no, because animals dont have dÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¦mons at all...i thought its because they dont gather enough dust around themselves. humans get dust because they create things, anything they create gathers dust around themselves and the thing they created, but animals never create things for the sake of creating, which is the main difference between us and intelligent animals.

Will · Postby **Will** » Fri May 30, 2003 7:48 pm

Yeah, it's the whole Dust thing...that caused dÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¦mons. Animals don't have an 'informed interest' in the world around them. Although even as I type that I wonder.

jopari · Postby **jopari** » Fri May 30, 2003 8:18 pm

maybe what seperates us from chimps is that we have Dust and thus daemons. because Dust brings knowledge, a chimp that had a daemon would be as or more intellgent (s/p) then us. since there is no such thing as a superintellegent chimp, they must not have daemons. see how logical it is?

Daniel · Postby **Daniel** » Fri May 30, 2003 9:29 pm

That's pretty logical, but where does it say that Dust brings knowledge? I always thought it was the other way around: knowledge and kindness and various other things bring dust.

Will · Postby **Will** » Sat May 31, 2003 10:47 am

Yeah, because we increase it.. Didn't the angels (through the Cave) say that the human skull became the perfect vehicle to amplify it?

Daniel · Postby **Daniel** » Sat May 31, 2003 7:03 pm

The human brain, I think, but same difference. It might work both ways, too: wisdom could bring more Dust, which would mean greater capacity for wisdom and thoughtfulness.

Will · Postby **Will** » Sat May 31, 2003 8:48 pm

Oh yeah, that's what I meant. :oops:

If it was the skull then to build the republic of heaven we'd just need to make lots of plastic skulls! Easy..

AySz88 · Postby **AySz88** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 1:54 am

Well, within the context of the books, the angels only gave dÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¦mons to humans...if that's what you're asking.

Outside of the books, well, I don't have much to add to the above...

animals with daemons

animals with daemons

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