The Republic of Heaven

Asriel & Coulter's relationship

Discuss the opening book of the trilogy

Asriel & Coulter's relationship

Postby Salem » Tue Sep 09, 2003 7:59 pm

Or does one love the other more? Are they capable of real love? :?
I am just SO weird!
User avatar
Salem
Grazer
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:07 pm
Location: Er...in front of the computer?

Postby jessia » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:05 pm

i voted yes, but it'd still be a very weak love (they both had other lovers anyways) if it hadn't been for the very end, that they had a common cause to protect their daughter's life. the only thing that brought them together in the first place (other than fate, to bring about lyra) was mrs. coulter's beauty and lord asriel's power. after lyra was born, neither of them really wanted to deal with caring for her. it was only at the very end, that they really really shared something, 'cause they died together protecting their daughter's love.
"o stars, isn't it from you that the lover's desire for the face
of his beloved arises? doesn't his secret insight
into her pure features come from the pure constellations?"
- from rainer maria rilke's third elegy


sign up and help edit+create his dark materials wiki articles for bridgetothestars!
http://www.bridgetothestars.net/wiki/index.php

Image Image
User avatar
jessia
Sraffie Queen
 
Posts: 10999
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2003 5:07 am
Website: http://cuaroninspired.wordpress.com/
Location: the colonies

Postby Daniel » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:39 pm

I think they did in the end, but probably not before.
*sigh* Well, at least you tried.
Daniel
Tinkerer
 
Posts: 895
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:13 am
AOL: polveroj
Location: Tumbolia (in the GEB:EGB sense)

Postby Carina » Wed Sep 10, 2003 5:59 am

yeah, before the end I think it was mostly physical attraction and obsession with power that brought them together
Carina
Gyptian
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 6:01 am
AOL: gryfoxgirl

Postby eloquent » Wed Sep 10, 2003 1:09 pm

I think they did love each other all the time... It's just that it was superceeded by other things as their lives moved in different directions (Coulter into her church career and persuit of power; Asriel toward furthering his revolutionary plans). Asriel was very bitter about Coulter, but love and hate are by no means mutually exclusive emotions. They still loved each other underneath it all, and this was realised in the 'embracing' scene at the end of NL, then again (perhaps more profoundly) when they killed metatron to save their daughter. Their love may not have been as strong or deep as Will and Lyra's, and it may have been long dormant, but I thought it was still there, underneath it all.
eloquent
Professional Delinquent
 
Posts: 5511
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:08 pm
Website: http://www.uber-flash.tk

Postby viper » Wed Sep 10, 2003 5:14 pm

yes i think they always did love deep down.
Image

A robin in a cage sends all of heaven in a rage
viper
Witch
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:01 pm
Location: Liverpool,occasionally in day-dream

Postby Blossom » Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:56 pm

i think they loved each other too. but were to concerned with their reputation to admit it.
User avatar
Blossom
Brigade Leader
 
Posts: 2830
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:47 pm
Location: Mercia

Postby Rose of Sharon » Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:48 pm

I believe in soul mates, and I think Coulter and Asriel were a true match -- that is, they always loved each other deep down, but never knew it, always believing their attraction was strictly physical. By the end, though, they realized that they did really love each other.
Let us go singing as far as we go: the road will be less tedious. -- Virgil
User avatar
Rose of Sharon
Zalif
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:41 pm
Website: http://blairhurley.tripod.net/movielover
AOL: hurleybl

Postby TheLadyofShalott » Sun Oct 05, 2003 6:28 am

I agree that they were definately a pair, but I wouldn't use "love" to describe their relationship, since they didn't seem to actually CARE about each other, and that's a big part of love. They would have saved themselves before each other, it seemed, even though they both sacrified their lives for their daughter. They slept around, DEFINATELY chose career over their relationship. So I'd say the closest the love they got was partership and sexual attraction.
User avatar
TheLadyofShalott
ShieldMaiden
 
Posts: 802
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 8:59 am
AOL: LadyOfShallot48
Location: In front of a glowing blue screen

Postby Dess » Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:09 am

I think they were too greedy to really love each other, and, by 'greedy' I don't mean for money or power, I mean greedy even when love was concerned. Instead of wanting to love the other, they wanted to be loved by the other. You know... more lusty than anything.

At the end, though... I think they did. When they both realized what they had to do for Lyra, it somehow brought them together.
User avatar
Dess
Writer, Dreamer
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:40 am
Website: http://troythorpe.com/ashli
Yahoo Messenger: dancingflutterbies
AOL: swimmingkittens
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Postby TheLadyofShalott » Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:03 pm

Dess wrote:I think they were too greedy to really love each other, and, by 'greedy' I don't mean for money or power, I mean greedy even when love was concerned. Instead of wanting to love the other, they wanted to be loved by the other. You know... more lusty than anything.


*nods* well said. That's kinda what I was trying to say.
User avatar
TheLadyofShalott
ShieldMaiden
 
Posts: 802
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 8:59 am
AOL: LadyOfShallot48
Location: In front of a glowing blue screen

Postby Annie3247 » Sat Oct 11, 2003 8:23 pm

course they truely loved each other! i mean they were the most prideful people i've ever read about, but still it was obvious they truely loved each other, and learned to love lyra in the end. i mean to ya'll remember the end of the golden compass? well...ok bad example because she left because of her pride, but her tears were true! and her and asriel didn't waste anytime in running to each other to hug, kiss, caress, u knwo all that good stuff. also in the end of the amber spyglass, they pushed away their pride for lyra, and died together. that's the only way they'd be satisfied....(do not ask what some of this means, because i just type and confuse myself at times)
Annie3247
Zalif
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:02 pm
Website: http://www.myspace.com/senoritaanita
Yahoo Messenger: Snoopygal3247
AOL: Annie3247
Location: SC, USA

Postby viper » Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:30 pm

i think i agree, i think
Image

A robin in a cage sends all of heaven in a rage
viper
Witch
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:01 pm
Location: Liverpool,occasionally in day-dream

Postby Story » Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:57 pm

I think they did truly love each other. Remember love and hate are just 2 sides of the same coin as my nan says...
Story
Zalif
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:14 pm
Location: Floating over London in Lee Scoresby's balloon...

Postby pvflaggirl » Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:23 pm

I think their love was of the tragic sort. They were in love, but they couldn't be together because their lifestyles were too different. They probably would not have stayed together. They were in love in theory, but not in practice...
User avatar
pvflaggirl
Sraffie Janissary
 
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:13 am
Website: http://www.livejournal.com/users/pvflaggirl
AOL: pvflaggirl
Location: Ohio

Postby Dess » Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:16 am

One thing I was thinking about... in the Amber Spyglass, Will and Lyra wonder how many other 'lovers' had discovered the same thing with touching each other's dæmons... like it was touching that sacred part of their spirit where true love is found, and Lord Asriel and Mrs. Coulter always take care never to touch each other's dæmons.

So, again, I say that they loved eachother in a lusty, greedy sort of way, but it wasn't anything like 'true love'.
User avatar
Dess
Writer, Dreamer
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:40 am
Website: http://troythorpe.com/ashli
Yahoo Messenger: dancingflutterbies
AOL: swimmingkittens
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Postby Daniel » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:48 am

That's a good point, although I think that people can truly fall in love just fine without touching each other's d�mons. Otherwise, would people in our world be just doing it subconsciously sometimes, or would they never have that kind of love?
*sigh* Well, at least you tried.
Daniel
Tinkerer
 
Posts: 895
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:13 am
AOL: polveroj
Location: Tumbolia (in the GEB:EGB sense)

Postby Dess » Thu Nov 06, 2003 3:39 pm

subconsciously, definetly.
User avatar
Dess
Writer, Dreamer
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:40 am
Website: http://troythorpe.com/ashli
Yahoo Messenger: dancingflutterbies
AOL: swimmingkittens
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Postby Annie235 » Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:49 pm

Hi, I've just joined! I voted yes because I think LA loved MC although I'm not so sure she loved him as much. Not sure she loved anyone other than herself, and towards the end, Lyra. I think LA is a very proud man and resented MC so much because he was angry at himself for still loving her after she washed her hands of him when he killed her husband. The fact I loved LA and not MC has no bearing on my judgement though! :wink:

Hope it's OK to just start posting!

best wishes
Annie
Annie235
Grazer
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:41 pm

Postby Dess » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:32 pm

Hi Annie, and welcome to the boards! ^_^

LA kinda washed his hands of her at the end of TGC when they parted because she wouldn't go with him. He turned away and didn't look back even for a minute. And her d�mon, her soul, longed to follow him, but she couldn't.
And what about Ruda Skadi (or whatever her name was), the witch who also loved LA, and I think he loved her too. They both had many, many lovers... they just happened to have a kid together.
User avatar
Dess
Writer, Dreamer
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:40 am
Website: http://troythorpe.com/ashli
Yahoo Messenger: dancingflutterbies
AOL: swimmingkittens
Location: Tucson, Arizona


Return to “%s” The Golden Compass / Northern Lights

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Content © 2001-2011 BridgeToTheStars.Net.
Images from The Golden Compass movie are © New Line Cinema.
cron